BTW, I still do respect your opinion ITH. I mean, this country is very split still. Sure the # of people against Bush is up to 67% of our country, but we are still a very split people. I expect there will be many of us who don't see things eye to eye on these issues, and that's fine. As long as we can try to understand eachother's point of view, then at least it's not blind pig headed arguing, heh.

I sometimes just feel very lost in this country as of late. And it worries me.

discussion is what a forum is all about imo but like u said as long as it doesnt get into a pig headed arguement. because no matter what anyone says i dont think, in reality, anyone is going to change their views on anything over this board.

and khaoz i dont like the little humiliation tag under my name, if u could think up something for me id really appreciate it. im old school enough for it right.

nop sorry you need 20 years minimum!! lol! i want my I AM CANADIAN!! tag back too damit!!

On another note which is far worse then war, Canda's temperature in increasing twice as fast as everyone else's cause of global warming. GOd damn pollution, 400 billion could implant a global hydrogen distribution system!! But nooooo lets kick the living shit out of each other its much more fun, then we can all witness the planet blowing up together... woot!!

We gotta save the damn polar bears, start using your bikes people!! get some exercise going you damn lazy bastards or we all gonna die!!!

Stay tuned for more!!

i do ride my bike after i drive to where its garaged lololol...just kid'n
and lets not forget about the energy companies(electric and others) that are polluting the air massively producing the services that we all use daily, so turn them lights off when you leave the room kids.

I agree with ITF and Khaoz, discussion is good, it brings up important views and opinions from both sides, as long as the people involved are willing to be open minded enough to try and look at it from the others view, knowing full well that nobodies mind more then likely will get changed.

But even though people have been presenting ideas in the past, thats what it is, in the past, what happened then cannot be changed, we need to focus on the now....who out of all the finger pointers have presented a "realistic" solution to the problem of Iraq? Like ITH said that if we pull out straight up the country will be worse then it is now or ever was....i think we need to present some sort of incentive to the Iraqi police and armed forces that if they take over control of the security of the country then they get blah, blah....personally i would think that ones self pride for their country would drive them to want to defend their own country on their own, but again their government is just about a spitn image of ours, corrupt from every angle....i dont really know what else we could do as a country to solve this problem other then what i suggested.

ideas?

Well, since you're old school and don't play with FA anymore we can put you into the "Legends" group if you want, which would make your title "Legend". Humiliation isn't an insult though, the board names go in order of the Quake3/UnrealTournament sayings when you get consecutive kills. Like "Multi Kill!" "Wicked Sick!" "Humiliation!", etc etc. As you make more posts it goes up.

If you want to be put in Legends, just let me know.

-K

What KhaoZ is saying (it should be obvious)

BUSH = MISSION
TROOPS = PEOPLE

They (the troops) are doing what they are told by the administration (bush) and they have to wether they like it or not. It's what they signed up for. the MISSION is killing the PEOPLE.

I'm listening.

let me rephrase: "There is no solution to the problem except to continue to try and rally people against the path Bush is leading us down." In general it's not *just* the man but the effect. but...

...who is *actually* responsible here? It's not like he just was forced into it. Leadership must change, and quick. Thank god for the elections. (Disclaimer: Bush is not god)

Bush is accountable, he *should* be hung for what he's done.

KhaoZ makes an inescapable argument of what is happening over in Iraq.
^a lot of my stuff was taken out for the sake of brevity.

Would you want to be that kid? Your money is paying for such to happen in Iraq right now. As will your kids and most likely your grandkids.

When Clinton was in office a lot of stuff got taken care of that wasn't being taken care of before. Things like education and debt payment were being worked out, so much for that!

We. Are. Fucked. so badly that it makes me want to check out Canada (i live in Michigan, it wouldn't be much different climate wise and stuff) and their legal systems, etc. Michigan holds 2 of the top 3 cities in the country for unemployment percentages last time i checked. #1) Philly, #2) Detroit, #3) Grand Rapids (MY CITY). My dad is working underpaid at a nursing home doing crazy extra hours to "keep up". We now owe a buncha money, our internet had to be downgraded, our cable is as basic as it comes, my truck barely starts but I can't afford a new one because there are hardly any jobs. People with degrees are working at pizza places. ....my ISP comes out of Kalamazoo which is 50 minutes away because of GR's shit econ!

What the hell do you think will happen to michigan if we keep spending all this money? We can't keep up with all the shit going on *BEFORE* the war.

Just because you have heat in your home, an internet connection and prolly 20 wireless connections in your neighborhood, 2+ cell phones and fancy gadgets... JUST BECAUSE you *THINK* it's all going to "work out in the end" *DOESN'T* mean it will.


Sometimes it takes big things to make you see the full picture. This war is that big thing. what do smokers do to quit after they *watch* someone die from cancer or get diagnosed themselves? they go cold turkey until they can manage to deal with the problem.

Stop with your "stop pointing fingers and fix it" shit. This isn't a broken toy that a sibling stepped on. these are real people in real cities with their own beliefs exactly similar to you and I. Good/evil? right/wrong? Juice and the squeeze... think about what your options are.

and that's all i have to say about that

Aight points taken, as I asked in my last post and ITF was getting to in his post, but nobody seems to come up with except rally against the "path" that Bush has taken us down...then what?? We are still faced with the problem at hand..


I believe i have suggested something in the last paragraph of my last post...and thats about as realistic as I can get for the problem at hand.

Again, I say so Bush is gone, then the next lucky Moneygrubber we will call a President will take office and face this same problem what do we do?

As far as Clinton goes what exactly were we in Somalia getting our asses kicked because we only gave our Soldiers 1 magazine of ammo to fight a battle...but thats an "in the past" discussion I get told....well I agree what Bush has said and done is in the past, he will NOT be President next term.....sooooo the question remains for the next President as he will be faced with this question, what do we do?? Realistically.

Ideas?

And I'm not atrying to sound shrewd or like an ass when I say this...Ask any economist, the best way to revive an economy is to start a war, its a VERY sad but true point, the problem is that when you start a war there is soo much at stake as far as your own countrymen...And I don't wanna get into the conspiracy theories as they don't change anything or supply a "realistic" option for ending this....What can the other political party provide for this country besides just pointing fingers and NOT following them fingers with options, as after the next elections its going to be time for them to step up to the plate I feel, and Lord help us all if it doesn't turn out good after the next guy takes office...

again I ask ideas?

after re-reading ITHs' first post again, the question of Democrats AND Republicans, The war is a very serious issue and running point of this next election, so what is either party going to do to win my vote besides the hatemongering that is going on from the democratic side....what is their running points...I beg either side of the Political system to win my vote...Sen. Clinton has openly admitted that she has no idea what to do about it, and like her I agree thats its crap that Bush passes this along to the next President.

Khaoz I totally understand where your coming from as those of you that have children and every decision you make affects them in every way for the future.

I just want to know for either party what they are going to do about:
1. The war
2. The well being of this country.
3. Healthcare, it sucks to be honest, I have insurance but for those that don't I can't imagine how they make if they don't get government assistance. i.e. the elderly that can't afford their meds that medicare won't pay for.
4. Schooling, I think I read somewhere that we are almost the dumbest country as far as graduating classes around the world in the last 15-20 years.
5. Border security.
6. And for God's sake STOP using Social Security to make the deficit look better, if thats even possible to make it look good.


You could prolly swap 3 and 4 around but either way they both need to be addressed

BTW Blood...I like the little title under your ava...I almost fell outta muh chair LMAO

Thanks =) Yeah, I like it too.


I don't know what type of incentive we could give a country that didn't ask for our help, heh. That's like my mom telling me I get a new car if I <whatever here>. I'm not gonna care, man. They've already fucked with me enough I want no part in their games. That's pretty much how I see Iraq. They didn't ask for help or imply it. Someone else comes in and forces help on them.. how would you like that? They mess up and say "Well, if you can fix my messup yourself, I'll give you a treat." my reponse, "........................... yeah right."

Like you said, I don't mean to beat down on people (other than those responsible) but currently I'm having trouble seeing this turn positive. I'd like to see responsibility take place and move on with a clean slate for the next president (ie. not someone who supported bush or really bashed him either). I guess all we can *really* do is protest and look at future canidates. but i don't see Bush getting any kinda "nice" treatment from anyone once he's out of office.

I hope that explains my point of view a little closer. I certainly gained in perspective to yours.

Maybe for incentive we could tell them we'll leave them the hell alone if they pick up the slack....lol...but seriously what is going to happen in that country if we just up and pull our soldiers..it'll be a free for all, they think the fighting now is bad...it'll be like the early 80's all over again, only worse as technology has developed even more intense weapons for them to play with. But we need to find a solution and do it fast, unfortunately neither side of our government has presented a solution as we are beyond the point of return, responsibility will be handed out for this, but that wont solve the problem at hand.

Yeah I'm not seeing this war deal going good for the present or for the next person in line, as much as I dont feel its fair to pass this to the next president, as how do you weigh their performance if they get this whole Iraq war staring them in the face when they take office. But I seen in an earlier post that Bush was saying that HE was the guy that was going to make the call on what was gonna happen...then I see last night that we're talking about war with Iran...well Bush got a real good reality check when Congress made him realise that if they don't pass the bill for money for the war to happen then it don't happen..looks like he not the man after all...well, I wish i had a universal remote so we could rewind and change the things that have happened, unfortunately we can't, and I'm sure if I had one, I could make a killing on it with the politicians lol.

But in reference to ITHs' original post, is all the Dems have to run for office is the hate platform?? I sincerely hope not, as I think we have bigger issues IN this country that need handled after this war is over...I'm pretty interested to see what Sen. Clinton has in mind for getting all the troops out of Irag by the end of '08 i think i heard on the radio...sounds good to me, I'm all for it, lay the plan out present that to the people, and I know that she has a healthcare plan as she was trying to get that through when Bill was in office. So lets evaluate what the candidates will do for our country and make the change.

Well hopefully I didnt get anybody pissed at me, as I've enjoyed the discussion, and seeing other points of view...Like Blood said in his post, all we as a people can do right now is just basically show how unimpressed we are with Bushs' decisions and actions, and when it comes time to vote exercise that right to make the change, and hope the next president and his people can diffuse this whole war that has divided this country.

Check my profile xD

Very well stated. I'll be keeping an eye on the candidates for sure, but not about gay marrage or such, if you catch me. ;)

I do believe I've said everything I feel is important to me so I'd like to thank you all for the discussion as well. Most of all, I'm glad it could be taken with maturity :) That means a great deal to me.