A deep thread (religion vs self-belief)

For Christians out there this might light some fires, might piss someone off or perhaps offend them. If so, just remember who is getting upset (not the starter of this thread). It's all with good intentions i ask...

Is religion a good thing? How is it different from self-belief?

This came to mind (again) last night when talking with a friend about different religions or lack thereof. We were both pretty tired and it didn't really go anywhere "intense" or "deep" but we did manage to define a few things from each persons perspectives/locations/etc. Also, tonight on the show House, there was a girl who challenged (Dr.) House in this stuff. I kinda don't want to type about it because it's a good show and it was just on tonight so it might spoil... but let's just say I agree with House, as usual.

back to answering the question from my perspective...
I guess, to answer the first question, I'd have to say "Life is short, enjoy it." Religions differ from self-belief in rules and regulations mainly. You walk in a church, you can't swear. They say God forgives all but (this is not a God vs no God thread, i know) you shouldn't curse. Your grand parents woulda smacked you (prolly) if they heard you curse in the house. People with self-beliefs that line up with Christianity, whom I personally know, tend to be a bit more "in-tuned" with what's going on today. You *really* mess up on something and you just wanna curse.. well you know the rest. If you walk in a chruch-friend's house and say that word you'd get looks. I mean, religious people tend to be (around here) less understanding and more "fire and brimstone" about stuff, but for no real-life applicable reason. Politeness and respect go a long way. I'm not saying I go to peoples house and curse up a storm, but there should be some slack BOTH ways, is my point, and the people who don't say they are "really religious" tend to offer that slack more than the contra.

What do you think? What goes on around you?
(btw, I don't mean just christians)

ps. my friends all me "downhillist" or don't have any answer to give. I don't really fit any kinda religion or belief system.

[Spin]

Originally Posted by blood

For Christians out there this might light some fires, might piss someone off or perhaps offend them. If so, just remember who is getting upset (not the starter of this thread). It's all with good intentions i ask...

Is religion a good thing? How is it different from self-belief?

This came to mind (again) last night when talking with a friend about different religions or lack thereof. We were both pretty tired and it didn't really go anywhere "intense" or "deep" but we did manage to define a few things from each persons perspectives/locations/etc. Also, tonight on the show House, there was a girl who challenged (Dr.) House in this stuff. I kinda don't want to type about it because it's a good show and it was just on tonight so it might spoil... but let's just say I agree with House, as usual.

back to answering the question from my perspective...
I guess, to answer the first question, I'd have to say "Life is short, enjoy it." Religions differ from self-belief in rules and regulations mainly. You walk in a church, you can't swear. They say God forgives all but (this is not a God vs no God thread, i know) you shouldn't curse. Your grand parents woulda smacked you (prolly) if they heard you curse in the house. People with self-beliefs that line up with Christianity, whom I personally know, tend to be a bit more "in-tuned" with what's going on today. You *really* mess up on something and you just wanna curse.. well you know the rest. If you walk in a chruch-friend's house and say that word you'd get looks. I mean, religious people tend to be (around here) less understanding and more "fire and brimstone" about stuff, but for no real-life applicable reason. Politeness and respect go a long way. I'm not saying I go to peoples house and curse up a storm, but there should be some slack BOTH ways, is my point, and the people who don't say they are "really religious" tend to offer that slack more than the contra.

What do you think? What goes on around you?
(btw, I don't mean just christians)

ps. my friends all me "downhillist" or don't have any answer to give. I don't really fit any kinda religion or belief system.

I went to a Christian private school for 8 years of the 12 I went to school, but I tend to agree with you on this whole topic...there are times when ya REALLY screw up and curse, and it happens...and I've done it in front of people that don't curse and that are Christians and I get the look and I genuinly feel bad for doing it in front of them, as most of them are older then I am, and I was raised with the "respect ur elders" and "do unto others as u would have them do unto you" line of thought. But like you say respect and politeness go a long way, and i tend to try and show that to everybody i come into contact with(and it gets hard with the stuck on stupid people) but its gotta be done, but I agree there has to be some slack both ways.

So I'm prolly standing under the same tree as you are i would guess.

[ITH]

Felt like a fantastic time to post this


A United States Marine was attending some college courses between
assignments. He had completed missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. One
of the courses had a professor who was a vowed atheist and a member of
the ACLU.
One day the professor shocked the class when he came in. He looked
to the ceiling and flatly stated, "God, if you are real, then I want you
to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes." The
lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, "Here I am God. I'm still waiting." It got
down to the last couple of minutes when the Marine got out of his Chair,
went up to the professor, and cold-cocked him; knocking him off the
platform. The professor was out cold. The Marine went back to his seat
and sat there, silently. The other students were shocked and stunned
and sat there looking on in silence. The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the Marine and asked, "What the
hell is the matter with you? Why did you do that?" The Marine calmly replied, "God was too busy today protecting America's soldiers who are
protecting your right to say stupid shit and act like an asshole. So,
He sent me."

[Spin]

HEHE...that'd been awesome to see that, never understood atheism, but then again, i'm sure they never understood religion either

[ITH]

lol the first time i have to admit i didnt even read your post cause i figured it was just something trying to start an arguement so i went back and reread it. i went to church every week when i was growing up for 18 years. after i moved out i stopped going.. but those values really did stick with me, and i do feel i am more down to earth and alittle more mature than most people. but anyways with the swearing (if u do believe in god and i do) it is always said that god forgives if u truely are sorry, and thats not just saying oh im sorry if u dont mean it your not sorry. god looks and sees your heart something u cannot hide. which is why i believe if u truely dont want to do it and struggle with it daily and still do it there is no harm in that, because in your heart u dont want to do it and god sees your heart. Humans are just that humans we fail constantly no one is perfect and that is why there is christ. the best example i can give is the theif on the cross u think that during his life he must have done some pretty terrible things to get crucified but in the end all he had to say was "lord remember me when you come into your kingdom" and christ saw in his heart he was sorry and forgave him.

alot of christains dont like to hear that but do u actually think that a person who has done good things all their life and tried their very hardest to do what is right dies in a car wreck and right before they die they say "Oh fuck" u actually think they will be sent to hell for an eternity? never.. god is love and he will know your heart.

but all that is if u believe in god.. i guess if u dont believe in god when u die... nothing happens?? that kinda sucks to think about an eternity of nothing.... gloomy

[Spin]

very well put

[IceBlade]

I have never been very religious. My parents aren't very relgious but my grandfather as well as my aunt are both devote Catholics and have lectured me my entire life about God. I never really took much of that in. I studied different religions and never really excepted any of them. Truth be told I don't really believe in religion. I'm not even sure I believe in God, although recently I'd have to say I've had more faith.

I don't know about you guys but the most devoted religious people I have ever met are all people who have sinned a LOT. Do they expect to be forgiven? There's this one guy who has done so many bad things. I'm pretty sure he's ordered hits on people yet now he's "clean" and welcomes God with open arms. He's always ragging on us saying shit like against us because we don't pray and aren't religious. Heh. I may not believe in God, but I haven't done half the sinful things he has. Nor have my parents and they aren't any more religious than I am.

Basically what I've done throughout my years is take in all the information, ethics and belief system's and use those to develope my own personal philosophy about what's morally right and wrong. I don't believe that some God will spite me if I masturbate or have sex before I'm married. I just try and be a good person and if there is a God than I hope he'll accept me for who I am and what I've tried to accomplish throughout my life.

[MegamanEXE]

I am catholic, I work at my church, I dont know who told you you cant curse, but we do it all the time. My priest, my boss Mr. Baird, and all of my co-workers. Probably why every other Christian denomination hates us.....

Anyway, it seems like you have something against ORGANIZED Religion, because Religion is your self-belief. I am not as "holy" as I was as a child, but I was raised with a specific set of values that I still follow to this day.

Oh and Ice, when you talk about gods who arent God himself, the g is lower case.

[IceBlade]

Originally Posted by MegamanEXE

I am catholic, I work at my church, I dont know who told you you cant curse, but we do it all the time. My priest, my boss Mr. Baird, and all of my co-workers. Probably why every other Christian denomination hates us.....

Anyway, it seems like you have something against ORGANIZED Religion, because Religion is your self-belief. I am not as "holy" as I was as a child, but I was raised with a specific set of values that I still follow to this day.

Oh and Ice, when you talk about gods who arent God himself, the g is lower case.

You're going to hell.

Originally Posted by ITH

lol the first time i have to admit i didnt even read your post cause i figured it was just something trying to start an arguement

you and everyone else i talk to. np. we can't all be open-minded or listen. ;) glad you posted back, though. And I appreciate the openness :)

Originally Posted by Spin

HEHE...that'd been awesome to see that, never understood atheism, but then again, i'm sure they never understood religion either

Well, it really is like you say. After research and many long talks with friends I've concluded that I lack abstract thinking. Abstract thinking is/are thought patterns related to things like time, god(s), etc, intangable things or things that cannot be seen or felt. When someone tries explaining how the Christian god, God, works, it's very hard for me to apply it to real life when I'm sitting here drawing a complete blank or have already come to conclusions about what happens/ed and why I happens/ed. This is different from close-mindedness because I am trying to understand what people are saying, it's just impractical for my brain, which makes it impracticale for my lifestyle. Overall I guess I'm saying that religion will *always* be "going through the motions" and nothing more for me. As a matter of fact there are many many people *points to the U.S.A.* who claim to be Christians but only seem to go through the motions. Those are the kinda people, when they appear to be "strong in the faith," who cause others (non-believers) to constantly feel guilty, worthless, insuffiecent, etc. So, in closing, it's just not applicable to my life and from what I see. [organized] Religion has just caused problems with people who arn't "part of the crowd."

Originally Posted by MegamanEXE

Anyway, it seems like you have something against ORGANIZED Religion...

I didn't clearify that when I say/said "religion" i meant "organized religion". And yes, you are correct to say that. And generally speaking, too, not just Christianity.

Originally Posted by MegamanEXE

Oh and Ice, when you talk about gods who arent God himself, the g is lower case.

He meant the chrstian god, God. His first words were about christianity followed by how his grandparents are oppressive. READ Pat, READ.